Tragedy Divine’s sole album “Visions of Power” finally has been released on vinyl. How did this become possible? Was this offer unexpected for you? Who owns the rights to the album?
Jörg: We had the idea of releasing the album on vinyl for years and there were also some requests from record companies but somehow it never really worked out. When Anto from Jolly Roger Records came to us we thought, okay, now or never and went through the whole thing with him. We are very happy with the end result and the new cover also looks really great! The rights belong to Axel Thubeauville and Jolly Roger licensed it for the vinyl.
 |
| "Visions of Power" reissue's cover |
Gerrit: It´s getting more and more expensive to produce a quality product so I guess that some black sheep might want to save some money. I work at Metal Blade Records Europe, doing wholesale, and we always try to meet the highest standards, no matter what people will do with the finished product in the end. That´s up to them. I have been collecting vinyl since 1980 and the bad pressings that ended up on my turntable were maybe 5-10 pieces in all those years. The worst one being some King Diamond “Them” re-issue on Roadrunner. Whoever gave that OK for this pressing should be beaten blue with the test-pressing! Don´t buy from just anybody, support the good labels!
Can your fans expect a special show in support of the vinyl re-issue, something like the show you did in 2016?
Jörg: No, we don’t have anything planned.
By the way, how many days and how much effort did it take in 2016 to rehearse and re-learn how to play “Visions of Power”?
Jörg: Everyone learned the songs individually and then we rehearsed together three times. It was a challenge to learn the songs again, but it was also fun.
Now let’s get back to the roots of Tragedy Divine. The band was founded as Variety Of Arts. Did you feel that that name was not cool anymore? Or were there music differences between Variety of Arts and Tragedy Divine?
Jörg: At the Variety Of Arts times we wanted to play as progressive as possible. We loved stuff like Psychotic Waltz, Watchtower and Confessor but at some point this got boring and we wanted to go in a straighter direction. As a result we also changed the band name.
All members except Gerrit were credited for writing and arranging the music. Was it really like that? Or was it a decision to avoid conflicts in the band? And who wrote vocal lines, if Gerrit was responsible only for the lyrics?
Jörg: Back then it was really the case that everyone took part in the songwriting. However, most of the riffs came from Sven and me. Gerrit was responsible for all the lyrics and the vocal lines.
Both demos of Variety Of Arts and Tragedy Divine were recorded in B14 Music Studio with Falk Gruber who is better known for his work with such bands like Atrocity, Crematory, Sinister etc. So why did you chose him?
Jörg: Falk Gruber was the hottest producer in our area at the time and it was clear from the start that we wanted to record with him. He’s a great guy and we had a lot of fun!
It’s hard to imagine what it was like to record a demo or an album 30 years ago. Could you tell me about that process? Was B14 Music Studio well equipped? Did you use any digital technologies? Etc.
Jörg: The studio was very well equipped and we still used the good old tape machine. There was no internet and no pro-tools, haha.
Do you remember your feelings when you had copies of “Apostles of Deceit” demo in your hands? I bet you were damn proud of it!
Jörg: Of course we were damn proud of it! We had killer songs with a really good production. It was a great feeling!
At what point did the legendary Limb Schnoor came to the picture? Could you share your opinions about him? Was he totally on your side and did he understood your goals well?
Jörg: I sent Limb the demo tape and he was immediately enthusiastic about it. I knew what he had done for Helloween and how he helped them succeed. I was convinced that he could help us. He understood our goals, signed us to his publishing company and began looking for a suitable record company.
Limb secured you a contract with T&T Records, a division of Noise Records. Was it a fair deal in hindsight? I read somewhere it was a multi-album deal.
Jörg: The deal was ok. We were a young band and happy that they signed us. I think it was a deal for three albums, but we broke up before that.
In one interview I read that the budget for “Visions of Power” was 15 000 German marks. Was it decent money at the time?
Jörg: It was enough money to enter a professional studio. So it was OK for us and we also needed all the money to produce the album.
Jörg: The record company chose the studio, but since Ralf Hubert had a good name at the time, it was fine for us.
How was it to work with Ralf Huebert and Eric Groesch, who produced the album? I’ve heard that Ralf was/is very demanding and serious man who don’t like jokes or mischief in his studio.
Gerrit: Eric was a very laid back guy and the recordings went very smooth and uncomplicated. Ralf only showed up once in the studio, very briefly. He listened to some rough mixes, nodded, gave his ok and mentioned that my vibrato reminded him of Roger Chapman of FAMILY, haha.
The guys from L.W.S. also told me that Ralf put big part of the job to his partner/sound engineer and showed in the studio just to check how things were going.
Gerrit: Well, looks like that this was his usual working participation/procedure. I can´t really judge what he did for/with other bands but as said before: he only showed up once during the whole recording process, so I guess he trusted Eric pretty much.
How long did it take to record everything? Is it true that the album was recorded live with just few overdubs here and there? If yes, that was insane way to record such a sophisticated music!
Gerrit: Puh, I don´t remember how long the recordings took, maybe around 2 weeks? Can´t say what the others did with overdubs but I clearly remember that I was very surprised to get offered to sing the songs piece by piece and not each song from start to finish. I was not used to that and it took a lot of pressure off of me. I only doubled some vocals here or there. Most of the stuff was first takes anyway.
I’ve always loved guitar work on “Visions of Power” — a perfect mix of soaring and sharp solos. Jorg, could you tell me about your partnership with Sven Podgurski?
Jörg: Sven and I got along very well. I think we really were a perfect duo. We always met at his house and then worked on the latest riffs.
Were you satisfied with the result when you heard the final mix?
Gerrit: I hated the vocal effect that was put all over my vocals all over the place at first! It took me years to get used to that. Nowadays I´m fine with it. It sounds like no other vocal recording I´ve ever heard. I still would wish that it would have been possible to really remix the stuff for this re-issue but that was not possible because some of the reels are lost.
Gerrit, a few questions to you about the lyrics. “Visions of Power” (the song) is based on conspiracy theories of J. v. Helsing (a.k.a. Jan Udo Holey). This is a bit controversial person and some of his books were forbidden in Germany and other countries. Could you explain, what turned you on his theories? Do you still share his ideas?
Gerrit: I was reading a lot of stuff in my mid-20s. Most of it fantasy or horror. I was a total book nerd and I was constantly reading, sometimes a few books at the same time. I bought said book in a regular bookstore ´cause it looked interesting and weird and, probably most importantly, the cover reminded me of the first Hades record. It was cheap and fell apart after the first read. Nothing in that book made any sense to me and I surely never shared any of these insane ideas! But it inspired me to write those lyrics from the viewpoint of somebody totally lost in absurd conspiracy theories. Who would have known back then that we now face a world full of people who believe in bullshit like that? It´s a shame really.
Gerrit: I exaggerated a lot in my lyrics to make my points clear and to be more dramatic. That just fits Metal as a genre well. Everything must be a little over the top. So, no, it´s not too personal. I sure went through a lot of suffering but that had nothing to do with my ex wife, more with my addictions and demons that I was struggling with, which continued after our split the same year this record came out. “Die In My Dreams” though described word for word what I had dreamed one night. I woke up and was relieved that Simone was still alive. “Bleeding Crystal Tears” was a very romantic song with some very personal quotes and descriptions of other dreams I once had that I all combined in here. It was a kind of love letter to her while I was away from home serving in the army.
A lot of the songs off the album deal with mystic things. What stories, events or books inspired you to write “Tyrant Shadows”, “Veils of Solemn Black”, “Ritual Damnation” and “Nightmare Reality”?
Gerrit: Yes, I love escapism and the great thing with books and movies, like with dreams, is that you can go anywhere you like. “Tyrant Shadows” deals with a real topic though: the death of my mother and how my father couldn´t speak about that or cope with that. Neither could I. “Veils Of Solemn Black” is my take on a ghost story. The ideal of an everlasting love, a partner suicide that will have the couple wander eternity forever together. It sure is inspired by lots of ghost stories that I had read. “Ritual Damnation” is a result of me reading some Anne Rice and so I had to also write a vampire story. About a vampire who wants to die but can´t. It´s similar to the story in “Tragedy Divine”, where we have God looking on his failed creation, unable to commit suicide because of his immortality. “Nightmare Reality” is about another nightmare I once had, where people were industrially slaughtered like cattle, under some fascist regime. Guess that I had seen the “Salo – 120 Days Of Sodom” movie before that. A movie I cannot recommend to anybody. The heaviest piece of cinema I ve ever had to sit through. Compared to that “Caligula” was fun to watch, haha.
There is untitled track № 11 on the album. Why didn’t you give it a title?
Gerrit: It had a title: “Gardens Of Mischief”. Back in the day secret bonus tracks were the rage of the day so I guess we also wanted to have something like that on our 1st CD.
 |
| "Visions of Power" original cover |
Gerrit: As far as I remember we wanted to have something that would symbolize POWER! And that picture just looked powerful and intimidating, at least until it was printed in the wrong colour, haha. The main lyrical theme of the album was power in all its forms:
"Die In My Dreams" — the power of dreams.
"I Married a Witch — the power of vengeance.
"Visions of Power" — the power of delusion.
"Seize Control" — the power of organized religion.
"Tyrant Shadows" — the power of loss and sorrow.
"Veils of Solemn Black" — the power of endless love.
"Bleeding Crystal Tears" — the power of imagination and longing.
"Nightmare Reality" — the power of terror.
"Tragedy Divine" — the power of despair.
Gerrit, your thanks list in the booklet ends with a speech against those who labeled true metal music as old-fashioned. Was it really THAT bad back then? Did you mean some certain people from music industry in that speech?
Gerrit: It sure felt THAT bad back then! If you would have told me that all my fears would be in vain and that we would have the best metal scene worldwide 25 years after that I would have called you insane! I was totally frustrated in late 1995/early 1996. No job, and no ideas for the future. Plus my heavy alcohol and weed abuse. And around me metal was dying, at least it felt like that. From 1990 on it was a downward spiral with bands like Pantera that I could never relate to taking the lead. All my fave bands were either forgotten, out of business or releasing shitty records. I felt like the last true warrior fighting backs to the wall, with teeth and claws! That was also the main reason why at that time I couldn’t stand staying in a band with the Tragedy guys apart from Jörg anymore. In my mind they were too easy going while I was defending my “religion”. So I had to start Sacred Steel to fight the “good” fight. Nowadays, my passion for traditional Metal is still there and I still do not listen to progressive stuff that much apart from my old faves, but I see those events in a different light and I surely overreacted back then. Of course, I do not regret founding Sacred Steel, either, haha.
Is it correct that in 1996 Tragedy Divine played a show with Anvil and Helloween? If yes, what are your best memories about it?
Gerrit: I don´t remember a show like that at all.
Jörg: No, we never played with them.
What were some other significant live shows that you played with Tragedy Divine?
Gerrit: We once played with our absolute faves Psychotic Waltz! That was a milestone in my “career” for sure. I hope I don´t mix that up with some Dawn Of Winter memories though, haha. I remember Buddy Lackey telling me that he liked my performance and singing. Awesome. Sorry, I don´t remember any significant shows apart from that. It was fun to see the old pictures of us though while preparing the release of the vinyl, all of us looking so young and me wearing a self-printed Witchfinder General shirt. Great that you can buy stuff like that easily today in all shapes and forms!
In 1997 you were bored with progressive metal and wanted to go in a straighter direction. That’s how Sacred Steel was founded. But what do you think about “Vision of Power” now? Are you proud of it?
Gerrit: Sacred Steel was founded in the summer of 1996!! That was before Hammerfall had their success and “true metal” had a kind of resurgence. I am really getting tired of always having to state that it was ´96 and not ´97…arrggghhh. I wanted to have leather, spikes and chains, an over the top old school image and not more breaks than needed for a song. I didn´t want no compromises anymore. Not at all. That being said, I am now very proud of “Visions of Power”. I think it´s one of the best records I was ever involved with. It stood the test of time.
 |
| Sacred Steel in 1997 |
Jörg: Gerrit and I initially wanted to continue as Tragedy Divine, but the others didn’t find it that funny, so we agreed that no one would continue to use the name. They started a new band named Spiral Tower and we started with Sacred Steel.
Gerrit: Yeah, we first wanted to continue with that monicker because I had come up with that name to end the chapter of “Variety Of Arts” in the first place so I thought that it was MY name. But I was wrong. That´s what the lawyers told me, haha. So we had to give up that name. But that was good looking back because we needed to find a more METALLIC name and so we chose SACRED STEEL. The other option would have been BATTLE ANGEL.
Variety of Art and Tragedy Divine were considered as big hopes of German progressive/power metal scene. Weren’t your fans disappointed when you moved in different direction with Sacred Steel?
Jörg: There were actually some fans who didn’t think it was that good, but at the end of the day you always have to do what your heart tells you.
Have you ever thought about a CD anthology with all the demos including the stuff from Variety Of Arts era?
Jörg: A few fans have already asked us about it. If there is a record company that would like to do it, we are open for that.
How can you sum up your experience with Tragedy Divine? What lessons have you learned with this band? What place in your musical career does it take?
Gerrit: It was a starting point that I wouldn’t want to miss. I just wish I would have been a little different back then. But you have to live and learn and make decisions and of course also some mistakes. When I see Bernie or Zube nowadays, I really, really like these guys! They are a part of my history and I wish them all the best!! I surely have learned to not subscribe the first deal that is offered. It was an OK offer back then so it seemed but the result was disheartening. The CD looked like shit when I first held it in my hands. Bad colors on the cover and the inlay was black and white instead of the multi-colored sketch we initially submitted. Very frustrating. Musically, it´s a great, nearly flawless recording, 9 out of 10 points from me! An early highlight definitely.
Thank you very much for the interview! Any last words of wisdom to round up the interview?
Gerrit: Thanks for these in-depth questions. People - go out and by the re-issue on Jolly Roger records! Pay attention to my liner notes there and learn some more about the lyrics. Sorry, I’m the wrong guy to ask about wisdom though.
No comments:
Post a Comment