Judicator: Being artistically honest is the key

NOTE: the interview was done in 2018.

If you are into power metal and listen not only to the veterans of the genre like Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian and Helloween, then you probably have heard the name Judicator. This American act has released its fourth album “The Last Emperor” and it rules! Tony Cordisco (guitars) and John Yelland (vocals), two founders of Judicator, agreed to discuss the making of the new album, guest appearance of Hansi Kursch (Blind Guardian), lyrical concepts of the albums, songwriting process and much more.

As far as I’m aware “The Last Emperor” could be released a bit earlier but Tony had to struggle with some personal issues. Did these issues disheartened you or did they make you even stronger and hungry for the music?

Tony: Definitely more hungry. This album took a lot to get done, but it was every bit worth it, and has been a wonderful and refreshing payoff so far.

Fans and critics have noticed that the music on the new album is heavier than on the previous one. Did it happen naturally or did you have a kind of a plan to come up with some really heavy stuff?

Tony: It was sort of both planned and unplanned. We definitely wanted to go in a more pure power metal direction this time, and with a faster approach, and I think just the nature of playing faster stuff tends to bring out the heaviness in my writing. “Raining Gold” gets straight up thrash metal at certain points — the breakdown in particular being heavily inspired from Sodom’s song “Magic Dragon” — and it just sort of came out naturally. I’ve always leaned toward that spectrum of power metal and metal in particular, so it was good to be able to unleash the beast so to speak this time around.

As far as I understand this time you recorded everything as a four-piece band. Why did you decide to extend the recording line-up? Did it change your approach to songwriting?

Tony: We definitely needed to expand to be able to play live, and as well to have a more holistic band sound and less of a project approach. Having Jordan (Elcess, drums), my best friend and long time musical companion, join the fold in particular was a key piece. What’s changed in the song writing is I now have more capability to stretch the instrumentation portions of the band. And Jordan and I jive really well together in general and have a natural chemistry built up over 12 years of playing with each other. He knows my writing well enough to know what he needs to do without even saying anything. It’s a great balance and really helps us bring out the best in each other’s performances.

How was it to record the album with the new members? Did you run into some difficulties recording the album as a four-piece?

Tony: This album went pretty much the same as recording “At the Expense of Humanity”. Live drums are definitely a difficult process to record, but we’ve learned a lot over the last two albums and have plans to make things even better in the future for all of us in order to keep upping our game.

Tony Cordisco

You were lucky to get Hansi Kursch for the song “Spiritual Treason” off the new album. How did you get in touch with him? Did you get any feedback from Hansi about your other albums?

Tony: John can speak more to this portion, but I spent some time with him and Hansi in Denver a couple years ago and Hansi was extraordinarily gracious and kind to us. He gave us many insights into the music industry and talked with us about music, and even took some CDs home with him. He’s absolutely the best kind of hero and a wonderful human being to boot. I couldn’t be more thankful for that experience and to end up actually getting to collaborate creatively with one of my lifelong idols.

John: I was lucky enough to get in touch with Hansi in 2014 to record guest vocals for Disforia’s “The Age of Ether”. Since then I have stayed in touch and we’ve developed a friendship. The timing of “The Last Emperor” lined up with Hansi’s availability, so he was kind enough to record guest vocals once again.

John Yelland

Hansi’s vocal was recorded by Charlie Bauerfeind. Don’t you want to work with Charlie or with some other producer?

Tony: That would be wonderful to do! I feel extremely grateful we’ve been able to work so extensively with Carlos Alvarez, who is a wonderful talent in so many aspects and an incredibly intelligent, practical, and down to Earth friend on top of it. Brett Caldas-Lima from Tower Studios who has worked with too many notable acts to name is also a tremendous talent that I’m grateful to have worked with multiple times. In the future I’d love to explore the possibility of working with some other producers I’ve looked up to in the field like Damian Herring or Dan Swano — those would be dreams come true for me, so who knows!

John: I would love to work with Charlie Bauerfeind more directly someday. He has worked on a number of albums that I cherish, so that would be a dream come true.

Tony writes all the music while John writes the lyrics but is John able to make changes in the music to adapt it for his vocal lines?

Tony: I certainly wouldn’t rule it out, but so far that has never come up as an issue. John is able to take what I’ve written and do everything he needs to do! We have a wonderful sense of partnership and cohesion in this department and have really learned to play off each other over the course of four albums and collaboration in side projects.

John: I suppose if I had a melody or another idea that I truly cared about, Tony and I could have a discussion, but the way we work generally makes that unnecessary. When I deliver my vocals, Tony may make additions or alterations to the music to fit a vocal melody or arrangement. This has happened a handful of times. Tony’s music and my vocals are continually interacting and reacting to each other throughout production.

“The Last Emperor” is a concept work which tells us about the Crusades. Would you say that this theme was inspired by the current situation in the Middle East?

John: The choice to cover The First Crusade was more inspired by the current situation in the West, I would say. It’s difficult to say, because the decision was not entirely a conscious one. I don’t always question where my mind takes me. But reading the lyrics and re-examining what was going through my head, I think the choice of subject matter had more to do with the polarizing cultural/political situation in the United States and Europe.

Of course I find the history fascinating, and a lot of research went into the lyrics, but I never choose a historical topic simply because “it’s cool.” It is always related to something happening in my life. In this case I was watching my country being ripped apart because of ideological differences. The situation has improved, I think, but from 2015—2017 it really did feel like a cultural civil war.

How this relates to the Crusades is not necessarily a direct link, because the Crusades were a reaction to an external threat, whereas the situation I have been describing is an internal threat. However, I think this reflects in the album’s lyrics because the album focuses less on battles and strategy and more on the struggle of an individual within a larger group context. It’s the spiritual and moral struggle of a person embedded within an environment dominated by groupthink.

John writes a lot about history and I’m really impressed with his competence in this subject. Did he study history at college? Does he check the facts he writes about at some influential sources?

John: While I don’t have a degree in history, I consider myself a sincere history enthusiast. With every history-based album of ours I have thoroughly fact-checked and researched the material, so you can rest assured knowing that our lyrics are not based on Hollywood movies and Wikipedia articles.

Michael Sanchez

All your albums have been release independently or through Masters of Metal Productions which was run by Tony. Why is that? Did you like your experience of working with Divebomb Records?

Tony: We have gotten solicited by a number of record labels, and so far two have been incredibly helpful and we have collaborated with — and for me it’s about finding what works best for the band — sometimes that means collaborating with a label and sometimes that means doing it yourself. We are current partnered with Alone Records for a vinyl release of “The Last Emperor” and are absolutely excited to be working with them as I own quite a few of their releases and doing a proper LP release has been a dream of mine. This is something we would not have been able to do by ourselves, so we are extremely grateful for the opportunity. “At the Expense of Humanity” was my second release through Divebomb, the first being Project: Roenwolfe’s “Neverwhere Dreamscape” and every time I’ve worked with them has been brilliant and a wonderful experience. Matthew (Rudzinski, owner of  Divebomb Records) is a big influence of mine and a great mentor and musician himself, so I hope to work with him again whether in Judicator or P:RW when the time is right.

By the way, what happened to Masters Of Metal Productions? Why did you close it?

Tony: We felt we accomplished what we set out to do — which was as a community of friends collaborate and help each other launch our various musical projects. At that point, it made more sense for us to pool our individual resources into our own bands and not overextend our reach. Bryan, Brett, Patrick, Tyler, etc and me are all still great friends and work together regularly.

What do you think about the music market these days? Do you have a clue how to promote Judicator and find fans across the globe?

Tony: I think staying in touch with fan communities, making sound business decisions, and being artistically honest are the keys for us right now. We operate very much at the ground level, but we always make sure each thing we do has a reasonable return on investment, and will help us branch out our brand more. The internet is primarily where we live and thrive and has allowed us to reach thousands of listeners worldwide and build a fanbase. Right now the goal is to keep producing content and getting music in the ears of those people!

The cover of “The Last Emperor” is probably your best one to date. Tell me about it. Did you tell Marc Whisnant what should be on the cover or did he come up with the entire idea? By the way, was it the Hellion’s Prime debut which turned you into working with Marc?

Tony: Helion Prime’s debut art is fantastic, and I love Jason and co and was honored to be included in a bit of songwriting for “Into the Black Hole” off that album. But, in truth, I’ve actually known Bo Bradshaw and Brilliant Engine for longer than they’ve been a band, and have always wanted to commission BE’s help — happy to have finally been able to!

The band has shot its first video but strangely enough it’s a video for the re-recorded version of “King of Rome”. Why didn’t you pick up a song from the new album?

Tony: To me, “King of Rome” is our signature song — it closes our concerts and has our most memorable chorus. We wanted the video to encapsulate the personality of the band and this was a heartwarming full-circle moment that brought us back to our very beginning and tied it to our present. It’s the realized potential of what was always there. This is a special song and that needed a special creative moment to bring it to life, which led to the video.

John: We actually had discussions about filming a music video for both “King of Rome” and a song from the new album, but ultimately we didn’t have enough time or money to do a second music video. For where we are as a band now, I think one music video per album is realistic.

The band is not that active on a touring field. Do you think that touring isn’t worth enough? Did you get any offers to play in Europe?

Tony: Touring is very logistically and financially difficult — especially as a band split up over multiple states. We have played all over the country, but in order to make the band sustainable, we have to be very intentional about our moves going forward. In addition, we have families, careers, etc, outside of the band and have to make sacrifices very carefully. We have gotten some outside the US offers that we are looking into as far as playing live, and hitting Europe sooner rather than later is definitely a goal. In the meantime we may just play a couple-three one off shows in the Southwest/Northwest US for the time being.

John: The reason we don’t tour very much is only a matter of money and work schedules. We don’t make a living off the band, so everyone has a “regular job” on top of it, which means in order to tour we must take time off from work. We have plenty of people around the world who would like us to tour through their area, and we have received offers to play shows and festivals across the United States. However, if it doesn’t make financial sense then it’s difficult to justify the large logistical and financial risk. I personally would tour all the time if we could. When we start getting better offers that take financial and logistical pressure off our shoulders then I think you may see us performing more often.

Jordan Elcess

What shows with Judicator would you call as the most memorable?

Tony: For me, the Tucson shows have been the most special. This is where I grew up, and where I first learned music and first had my live experiences. I absolutely love the opportunities I’ve had to play abroad, but there’s something always wonderful about playing at home. Beyond that, I’ll say that Denver is definitely our second home and the times we’ve played there have been absolutely magical and very similar to the homecoming feeling of Tucson.

John: I really enjoyed our first performance in Tucson, Arizona because it was a packed show and many of Tony’s students attended (he was a school teacher at the time). There was a magical atmosphere at that concert. Besides that, I would probably say our most recent show in Denver, Colorado because we performed with Vacant Throne, who rarely perform these days, so I felt very fortunate to have that opportunity. I performed guest vocals on a song of theirs too, so that left a wonderful impression.

Tony said in one interview that he already has a bulk of ideas for the next album and that there will be some black metal elements. Don’t you afraid to push off some of your fans?

Tony: Not at all, it’s nothing most people will probably honestly even notice. I listen to very untrue black metal, so I’m thinking more like guitar techniques from Dissection or latter-era Immortal, which can blend with power metal pretty seamlessly as the chord structures are very similar and it’s more about how you apply techniques on the guitar to those elements. Many people didn’t notice the very blatant (in my opinion) Death and Cynic worship on “At the Expense of Humanity”’s guitar playing, so I have confidence power metal fans won’t be turned off by my more extreme metal influences.

John: I’m very confident in Tony’s abilities and his commitment to excellence, so I don’t worry about backlash. No matter what our music sounds like, I know it will be good. I only have to worry about keeping my vocals on the same level! Aside from that, our supporters are very kind and appear to enjoy seeing us grow as artists, so I feel confident that wherever we go it will be a fun journey for both us and our supporters.

Question to John: how do you decide what lyrical concept to choose for particular albums? What makes you to think: “Let these tunes be about Napoleon or Frederick The Great”?

John: As mentioned earlier, it comes naturally. I believe our interests arise because we connect with something in them. There is something the interest satisfies, and so you explore it more than you would any of the countless other things that are vying for your attention. This, I think, is why The First Crusade as a subject stuck out to me in a time when I felt my homeland was being swept up into an ideological fervor.

Regarding “King of Rome”, I think that appealed to me because at the time I was beginning to descend into an existential crisis. I was dealing with a lot of insecurities. This is why, out of all the battles Napoleon was involved in, I was drawn most to his final battle, and why I juxtaposed struggling for greatness against fighting inevitable disintegration.

“Sleepy Plessow” was a result of my ensuing fascination with the Napoleonic Era. I researched other notable rulers and generals before coming across Frederick the Great. His story strongly resonated with me because of how complicated his relationship with his father was.

I’m really interested in the concept of the album “Sleepy Plessow”. Not many people are aware of what is Plessow or what is Sans Souci for example. Why are Fredrick The Great and the Seven Years War so special topics for you? Who came up with the idea to use the picture "The Flute Concert of Sans Souci" as the cover for the album?

Tony: It was my idea, and mostly at the time it was an issue of funding — that art is publicly domain licensed, so it was very inexpensive to use compared to contracting art like we did for all our other albums. It’s my hope any future remastering/remixed/re-recorded versions of that album come with unique artwork. But that piece is a beautiful moment in history and really sums up Frederick quite well, so given what we had to work with, it worked fantastically.

John: Plessow is a German suburb near Potsdam. I had friends who lived there, and they described Plessow to me as a bleak, foggy place. Because of this, they jokingly referred to it as “Sleepy Plessow,” referring to “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow,” a famous story by Washington Irving.

I had the pleasure of visiting Germany shortly after that album’s release, and I visited the Sans-Souci Palace in Potsdam, as well as Plessow. I also visited the town of Beelitz, which is mentioned in the song “Thirty Years of Terror.”

Anyways, I included Frederick the Great’s efforts during the Seven Years War because as I did more research on the famous King of Prussia, I realized that while many in the west know about Napoleon, nobody really knows about Frederick the Great — even Prussia for that matter. This is why I chose to not just focus on Frederick the Great, but also his father and a brief history of Prussia.

By the way, don’t you want to write an album about American history? If yes, what era would you pick up?

Tony: I’m not sure if John has wanted to or not, but for me, I’m just not that interested in it. I enjoy going outside of my cultural upbringing and perspective. I’d much rather explore something like Dutch Naval History or World War I or the Byzantine Empire.

John: I would love to make one of our albums about an event or person in American history. Right off the bat I’m drawn to the American Civil War, the Mexican-American War or the Apache Wars. Come to think of it, I would probably be most drawn to the Apache Wars.

I know that you and John got in touch at the Blind Guardian’s show in 2010 in Arizona. How did that happen? Is there any kind of a special story behind that event?

John: I became a Blind Guardian fan some time before “At the Edge of Time” was released, so when they announced their “Sacred Songs and Worlds Divine” tour, I was ecstatic to see them perform. However, they weren’t coming to Salt Lake City, so I had to travel to another city. A complication arose though, because they were touring the U.S. in December, which is when I had college finals. I couldn’t afford to miss any class, so I had to find the nearest cities they were playing on a weekend. It just so happens that the closest city they were playing that fell on a weekend was Tempe, Arizona. I flew down on the day of the concert, early in the morning. I quickly became bored waiting at the hotel, so I figured I would go to the venue early and just wait. Who knows, I might meet a band member or something. In any case, I arrived at the venue by 11:00 a.m. or so. I waited for hours until finally Tony showed up. We spoke and got acquainted, and after some time he told me that he is friends with Seven Kingdoms, the touring opener. He said he was going to go backstage to visit with them and that I could come with him if I wanted. I felt so incredibly lucky!

We went backstage and hung out in a green room. Seven Kingdoms was very friendly, and after some time we went out to watch Blind Guardian sound check. That was simply magical. Marcus Siepen walked by me and I very awkwardly said hello. We must have stuck out like a sore thumb, because shortly afterward security asked us to present our backstage passes — which we did not have — so we were asked to leave.

Well, after that Tony and I more or less stuck together. We watched the concert on the barrier, which was amazing. After the show we exchanged information and learned that we were each involved in a band. In the following weeks we grew closer, and Tony eventually suggested we do a “for fun” metal album together. That became “King of Rome”, and the rest is history!

By the way, what do you think about such Blind Guardian’s albums like “At The Edge Of Time” and “Behind The Red Mirror”? Would you say that they are as strong as “Somewhere Far Beyond” is for example?

Tony: “At the Edge of Time” is a perfect album as far as I’m concerned. It’s a monstrous and wonderful achievement. “Beyond the Red Mirror” is a great album in its own right, but it’s definitely my least favorite. To me, the best Blind Guardian is “Follow the Blind” through “Nightfall…”, with “Imaginations…” being the ultimate winner. But I love everything they’ve done — I just happen to love the first 6 albums the most.

John: I think Blind Guardian’s later, more recent output is really strong. I even really like “A Twist in the Myth”, which is usually regarded as one of their weakest albums.

You covered “Tommyknockers” for the first Judicator album. Don’t you want to record some other covers (not necessarily Blind Guardian)?

Tony: Generally speaking, I don’t like playing or listening to covers, and I really don’t enjoy when bands play covers live when I paid to go see them play their music — and I also don’t see them as a good use of resources or time. That cover was fun to do because we started a “Tommyknockers” chant at the Blind Guardian concert we met at, but it’s unlikely I’ll ever push to do more cover songs. I’d just rather play my own stuff! If we did any covers I’d probably just want to go full bore and do a cover album to make it worthwhile, but the chances of that happening are so unbelievably slim. I’d definitely want to cover some Scanner, Riot, or Running Wild or something though if we did!

John: I would love to, but our main focus is on recording original music. It would be cool to release an EP of cover songs someday — who knows! I would love to re-record a cover of “Tommyknockers” with professional production. As far as other covers though, maybe “I” by Black Sabbath or “Space Eater” by Gamma Ray.

Tell us about the album “At The Expense Of Humanity”. Can you reveal some circumstances and details which influenced you to write it?

John: I originally wanted all of Judicator’s albums to be history-based, so when I got the music for what would become “At the Expense of Humanity” I immediately saw the challenge — finding a period of history that matched how moody and somber the music was. I couldn’t do it. Every event, person or period of history I brainstormed for the music felt out of place. So I began to work on an original concept.

As cool as my original concept was, it eventually fell flat. I became distraught because every idea I had for the album didn’t fit. One day during a brainstorming session an idea came to me — what if I wrote the lyrics about my brother’s fight against cancer? It was a very uncomfortable subject, but it fit the mood of the music so perfectly.

He died in 2008, and I had dealt with his death in an unhealthy manner. I swept my feelings and memories under the rug. I didn’t explore how I really felt about my family, my brother or even myself. So writing the album about this allowed me to explore the shadowy recesses of my heart, and that was very cathartic. There’s a lot more to it, but I don’t want to rant. Maybe someday I’ll write a book or do a more in depth interview.

This album includes your longest to date song “Lucid Nightmare”. Tell me about the making of this song. Did you have some certain idea which required to record such a long track or was the song built-up step by step?

Tony: This song in particular was built up over time. It actually predates Judicator as far as my writing process goes. I began writing it in around 2010 as a song for my old groggy thrash band Sedulity, and I held on to parts of it over the years. When trying to formulate an epic track for “Expense…”, it seemed natural to use some of these parts, but put them in more a power metal/melodic context so that John could write vocals to it. Some of that more aggressive/thrashy/death metal edge definitely remained, which I think explains the heaviness of the song and the inclusion of quite a bit more harsh vocals than normal. It remains one of my proudest moments with the band and I believe it’s one of our most emotional effective songs.

Is it correct that Tony works as a teacher? If yes, tell us please what do you teach? What kind of methodic do you use? Where do you work: primary school or high school?

Tony: No, or at least not anymore. I taught high school for a very short time after college, just a couple semesters. I left because of the politics and because I could not support myself doing it. But I’ve been working in engineering and distribution management for the last 3—4 years and have been much happier for it.

John, tell us a bit about you outside music. It’s clear that you read a lot but what kind of job do you have?

John: For my “regular job” I’m a web journalist for a news station. I earned a bachelor’s degree in TV/cinema production, and I am currently working on a master’s degree in theology. My wife and I have an adorable dog named Ripley (we named her after Ellen Ripley of the Alien films). I like photography, video production and film analysis.

Judicator on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/judicatormetal/