Leviathan: The monster is rising again

NOTE: The interview was done in 2018

Colorado based progressive metallers Leviathan have released a new album with an odd title “Can't Be Seen by Looking: Blurring the Lines, Clouding the Truth”. Well, this band has always been whatever but obvious and predictable. The new album is a good example of that — long, complex (but not complicated) and thoughtful songs hold attention during 53 minutes and when it’s over the first thing you understand is that you want some more. The album promised to be something special also because of the mighty Mark Zonder who laid down the drums and Brazilian singer Rafael Gazar who took over the vocal duties. I've got in touch with the band’s mastermind John Lutzow to enquire everything about the making of the new album.

Let’s start with some basic information about the album. Did it take long to record the album? Where was it recorded and who helped you in the studio?

The entire process for the new Leviathan album took a little over four years to complete. I really wanted to take all the time necessary to get back to proper Leviathan quality. Not just that, but I wanted to make a statement with this album. The subject matter was so personal to me and important with the current state of the world. I had to make sure the album delivered on that passion and intensity. My two previous releases fell short in many ways relating to production quality. This was due largely in part to my own impatience and arrogance. The album was recorded at a few different studios including Mark Zonder’s own studio for drum tracking. I recorded all the music tracks at my home studio. Raphael recorded the vocals at his place in Brazil. We mixed and mastered the album with Brad Smalling at Evergroove Studios in the mountains of Colorado. Brad did a great job. He really committed to delivering a fabulous product for the ears.

Rafael Gazal

Tell me please about your new singer Rafael Gazal. I know he is from Brazil and sang in a band called Pastore. How did you find him and what turned you onto working with him?

I found Raphael online using a file exchange group. I recorded with a few other singers before deciding to go all in with Rafael. He is an amazing singer. It was truly a gift to get to work with him. Jeff Ward was supposed to record the new album. He and Brice Cave (our local singer that performed with Leviathan in 2011 and 2012) both tried to work on the vocals for the new album. They just couldn’t commit to the material.

How do you view your further collaboration with Rafael? Isn’t it hard to arrange rehearsals and logistic when you and the singer live in different countries?

I am working on new material already and will definitely work with Rafael as much as I can in the future. Yeah, the geographic distance between us would be problematic for live shows. Rafael is onboard if the right opportunity presents itself for us to get back to Europe. The plan would be for him to come to Colorado and rehearse for a few days and then we fly together to the shows. Realistically though, our collaboration will just be studio work. Brice Cave would most likely tour with Leviathan again if we get the right gigs lined up.

Tell me please about your work with Mark Zonder. Did he accept your offer to record the drums on the album easily? Did you work with him closely on his parts or were they up to Mark? Will you continue to work with Mark?

I became friends with Mark Zonder via social media back in 2011. This was right before we went to Europe with Fates Warning that year to play at the Headbangers Open Air festival. Mark was already out of the band by then but he helped me connect with management for additional opening spots. Mark has been my favorite drummer since “Perfect Symmetry”. Before Mark did any drums on the Leviathan album; I had already worked with two other drummers also developing the material. The drum sound wasn’t right so I asked Mark to record one song as a test. From the first few seconds of hearing his tracks, I knew that I had to hire him to finish the album. Mark runs a drum for hire type of studio in California. He is very easy to work with. I would send him rough mixes of the songs with both drummers’ parts and a click data track for him to record over. He would come up with his own parts, record them and send them back. I would love to record with Zonder again. I am not sure if that will happen though. I have been working with a new local drummer that is really hitting the mark.

Let’s talk about the new songs. When did you start writing them? Did you write everything alone or did you discuss lyrics, bass and vocal lines with others?

The writing process began in 2014 after I was finishing up a side project called Tomorrow at Dawn. This is an instrumental acoustic duo with my old friend Jason Boudreau (Quiet Room, Tyrant’s Reign). I mostly write everything alone. Derek Blake the bass player will come over once a week and work out some of the parts with me. Derek also helps with the vocal arrangements. Other family and friends will help as a sounding board for me to iron out weaknesses and develop strengths. One song on the new album (“Lost Boys to Found Men”) was written for my wife, she was originally going to sing that one but kind of lost confidence after hearing Rafael’s finished tracks.

By the way, what is your writing method? Do you write on a daily basis or do you prefer to make it only when you have inspiration for that?

I work on music every day, I don’t necessarily write that much. I only write lyrics when I feel the inspiration. The lyrics have always been the most important element of music for me. Creating the musical foundation is more fun and is something I can do late at night after the family is asleep. I put on headphones and experiment with guitar tones or midi sounds. These simple ideas can later be developed into riffs or sections that will eventually be massaged into a fully structured song.

How do you see Leviathan today? Is it your own project or is it a band when everyone has an equal voice?

Since our reunion shows in 2010, Leviathan has been more of a studio project than a real band. The past members and I live fairly far apart. Jeff Ward moved back to Texas after Leviathan disbanded in 1998. Derek Blake and I are really the only ones keeping our brand alive. Derek and I have been friends since 1985. We are happy to have the freedom to work on music and release albums after all this time.

As far as I understand, the new album is a concept piece of art. Tell me, please, a bit about it. What influenced you to record it?

The new album is a conceptual piece in that most of it pertains to our state of the world. In my perception, the world of politics, corruption, greed and poisoning of the environment is at the worst point in history. I was never very political but after the last USA presidential election, I became very involved in learning about government. We think our democracy works but most people can’t imagine how far off from that ideal we ended up in reality. I worked as a volunteer for Bernie Sanders. He is the only politician that I have seen in my life that tells the truth and isn’t controlled by money. Look up any problem in the US impacting working people and you will find that Bernie has been fighting on the right side of that cause for over 40 years. This was inspirational and life changing for me. I had to get involved.

There are a lot of samples and speeches in the album. Who recorded them and what is their role?

If you are a fan of Leviathan going back to our debut EP, you will know that dialog and spoken word has always been a dominant characteristic of our albums. I am a huge movie collector and have lived my life with constant movie quotes playing out in real life. The dialog sections began as a way for me to have a voice even though I wasn’t the lead singer. The entire dialog collective, speaks for me or to me in some cases as if the listener is attending a self-help meeting where multiple people are speaking out about problems, feelings or emotions. These sentiments establish the characters voicing opinions back and forth about a topic.

The song “Properly Channeled Rage” has some tribal/oriental vibe in my opinion. Is it really like that? Didn’t you want to add some pipes/horn section in there?

I never intended for it to have any particular theme other than being as aggressive and angry as possible without delving into speed metal and screaming my lungs out. I would gladly put some horns on a song, but I already take a lot of criticism about the “non-metal” sounds I use.

The song “The Struggle to Be Seen as Human” has that industrial/mechanistic feel. Tell me, please, what is your idea with the song?

I think this also falls into the category of me using whatever elements I have in my creative arsenal to punch a song up in intensity. The low B string really comes into play here, providing that growling bottom melody.

The cover of the album is very metaphoric. To me it looks like the struggle between the USA and the spirit of revolution. Can you comment on your idea behind the cover? How did you get the idea to use the picture of Delacroix “Liberty Leading The People”? And what is the writing “We are…” bottom in the middle?

The album artwork was done again by my German friend Martin Schroeder. He comes up with all the elements on his own. He is pretty much a member of the band and even did some guitar work on our 2011 studio album — “At Long Last, Progress Stopped to Follow”. He is a critical component of my work. He provides great production support in steering the sound of the records and keeping me on track. I send him lyrics early on for every album. From those he gleams the essence of the songs and builds visuals to tell that same story. I think he captured the anxiety and rage of this album perfectly. The quote at the bottom says, “We are fucking angry”

As far as I understand, the album has been released independently via your own label. Is it because no other label knows how to sell your music or market it?

I wish it was as simple as no other label knowing how to market something. Leviathan has been on labels before. Those experiences always turned out badly. In every case dating back to our debut EP in 1991, we would finance the recordings on our own, press CD’s then begin marketing. In 1994 we were signed to a European label called RTN. They did a great job of getting our previously self-released album, “Deepest Secrets Beneath”, some exposure. They sold over 14000 copies of that record. We never made a dime. In 1996 we signed with Century Media, they picked up our already self-released “Riddles, Questions, Poetry and Outrage” album. We had a four album deal with them but the timing wasn’t right and we didn’t feel appreciated. Needless to say that relationship went sour and we ventured off on our own again. I won’t rehash this much lamented low point in my musical career but suffice it to say that is why I am here. Nowadays it seems any label that I receive offers from isn’t really in a position to improve my product or quality of life, so I continue to go it alone. I would rather fall or fail on my own these days then hand over all control and ownership of my life’s work for pennies on the dollar.

Signing stuff for fans at HOA Festival

Have you got any feedback on the album yet?

I just started a promotional campaign with Against PR. I have received only three reviews back so far. All the reviews have been great. You can read some of them on the Leviathan website www.leviathanresurrected.com

Do you play live that often? Do you see a point in playing live these days? What can motivate you to go on tour for 3 or 5 months?

Leviathan doesn’t play live that often. Typically, we will play a few locals shows to prepare for bigger festivals gigs as they come up. I would love to play live more often. Logistics of going on tour for more than a few weeks would be tough to swing financially.

Some of your earlier songs like “Release of Tears” and “So Where Is God?” reflect your spiritual quest. Did you find the answer to your questions about God or higher power?

I have touched on that soul searching question many times over the last 30 years of writing. I can say I don’t have the answer for everyone but have found peace for myself. I was raised Christian/Catholic and tried to follow those teachings until I was a teenager. I studied religion for two years in college and when I was younger and in trouble, I looked at becoming a priest. I always felt something was missing in my pursuit of religion and reason. I didn’t have that willingness to ignore science and surrender fully to faith in a flawed idealism. I am obviously an atheist now. Religion or specifically, organized religion is useful for some people. Having human decency and respect for life is more of what I believe and try to practice. I believe we should all try and leave the world better than we found it.

Do you stay in touch with Jeff Ward and Ron Skeen? Do they support what you do with the band? What are they doing these days?

I still communicate with Jeff Ward. The departure of Ron Skeen was pretty much established while we were working on our “Scoring the Chapters” album back in 1997. He had moved to more of a band manager role than writer and musician. After we broke away from our contract with Century Media, Ron wanted to establish his own label and take that very seriously. Ron was about five years older than the rest of us in the band at the time. He was the only married member and had two children and another on the way. He contributed only 4 of the 15 songs on that album. The remaining members and I had prepared to move on without him as a member if Leviathan did well with that “STC” release. We hoped there would be a natural evolution with him taking the band he started back in 1989 to the next level as a record label owner and manager. He really supported my material and gave me complete artistic freedom. When the sales of “STC” hit rock bottom, we all disbanded in misery. Trevor Helfer our old drummer stopped playing, Derek and I began working on side projects and Jeff moved back to Texas.

As far as I understand, you live not far from Littleton, where the infamous Columbine School massacre happened. Did it have any impact on you or your music? Don’t you want to write a song in memory of the victims of the massacre?

Yes, I live only about 20 miles from that school. Ty Tammeus our first drummer went to that high school. More surprisingly, I live only a few miles from a more recent gun massacre that occurred in 2012 at the Century movie theater. My family and I would go to see movies there all the time. My daughter attended the high school up the street from the theater and lost two close friends that night. Denver has a very bad reputation on the world scene. I guess that is justified considering such high profile mass murders. I never felt inspired to write anything relating to those murders. I don’t know if I could assemble words that would make any of the victims of that insanity feel better.

John and his bike

Tell me about your life outside music. What is your full time job? Do you have a hobby? Do you like reading or traveling? Are your neighbors and colleges aware of your musical career and what do they think about your music?

My main full time job is IT work for a large Laboratory company. I also continue to do volunteer work and side jobs to fund my many other interests. I still teach and do freelance IT work as well as home renovations. My main hobby and non-musical passion is motocross. Riding motorcycles was my first real love. My father died when I was nine years old. Motocross filled my life as a distraction from loss. I never got to race until I was an adult and could afford to do it on my own. Motocross turned out to be a serious love / hate relationship. My first two years of racing almost cost me everything. I had serious life threatening injuries that cost me tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills and took part of my leg. I quit racing in 2004. After many years away and drastic life changes I began working with one of the regional motocross organizations. In 2011 I bought another bike and began racing in the 40+ age group. I had no aspirations of ever winning or doing well. I just needed to be connected to something. I would work at the races as a referee and help out with all the IT work for the club. I think since I was approaching the racing from a different mindset something just clicked. I was working two full time jobs to pay for a divorce. I lost 35 pounds of fat and got in great shape. I finished 2nd in the last race of 2011, this gave me confidence. I had never finished a race better than 4th my entire life. Then next year, I began winning almost every race. In 2012 I won the state and district AMA motocross championships. That was a high point in my life. To love something so much, fail at it, then get a chance at redemption. I am hoping for the same thing with Leviathan.

Feel free to send a message to fans and readers.

Thank you for the opportunity to reach some new fans and catch up with others on everything that has happened with me and Leviathan over the last 28 years.