I want to begin from afar (and show off a bit). I was one of those people who approached Ed Aborn, the drummer of Siren, in 2016 for a possible interview. After a week I got an answer from Ed and that was a 65-page book about the early days of Siren! One thing led to another, and Ed rebuilt his friendship with the singer Doug Lee, they resurrected Siren, played some shows in Europe and recorded an album in 2020. What all this has to do with Atomic Opera? As you may know (or may not) the guitarist Hal Dunn played in Siren in the early days and later he and his mate Todd Grubbs joined Ed and Doug to play the abovementioned shows in Europe and record the album. Somewhere along the way they decided to bring back to life their band Atomic Opera, which Hal founded after leaving Siren in the 80’s. Glad to be in service, guys! So here we are talking to Hal and Todd about the story of Atomic Opera and the making of “Time Warp”, the band’s debut album which came out in 2021.
Do you remember the moment when you decided to resurrect Atomic Opera? Were you asked about that by the fans while playing with Siren in Europe?
I don't think there was a moment that we decided to do that. It just kind of happened, without any planning. After Siren released the "Back from the Dead" album, we kept on writing songs. We all had a lot of ideas for new stuff, and we were all kicking around the idea of doing various solo projects of some sort. Hal had some riff ideas. Todd had written a bunch of new songs. Doug had a lot of ideas. Hal had been sharing some of his song ideas with Todd, and we started collaborating. Next thing we knew we had written several new songs. What we hadn't decided was if some of these would be for solo projects or Siren or what. We had quite a few ideas recorded, and Siren drummer Ed Aborn was interested in putting down some drums, so he did a great job on that. Ed is not only a killer drummer, but he's outstanding with recording and mixing, so he helped get everything recorded. Early on we recruited Ryan Tatum to play bass on some songs, which was an excellent fit since Ryan is an amazing musician. At some point we decided to try to redo a couple of old Atomic Opera songs, "Kamikaze" and "Take Control." I'm not sure when the idea came to us of resurrecting Atomic Opera, but we had already had several new songs by then. We thought, what the heck? And why not? Since we considered our old AO recordings to be a far cry from what we're capable of doing. As it turns out FHM Records was interested in putting out a new Atomic Opera album, so Atomic Opera FL was reborn. We had Jim Morris at Morrissound Studio do the mastering and the final product was the "Time Warp" album.
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| Hal Dunn |
By the way, how was it to play at “Keep it True” and “Headbangers Open Air” festivals with Siren? Did you feel like home finally?
Yes, playing at the “Keep it True” festival was truly a phenomenal experience for all of us. We had so much fun! Oliver and the other event organizers were great. The fans were amazing. We had no idea of what to expect regarding the support of the fans. And we were blown away. The whole trip to Germany was great, which was captured in a documentary film, "I'm Too Old For This Shit: A Heavy Metal Fairy Tale." Playing live in front of so many dedicated metal fans was super awesome. We didn't play “Headbangers Open Air”, since Covid threw a wrench into our plans, but we're hoping to get a chance to play that show in the future.
Did you try to get a hold of Mike Martinez, Mike Furney and Ryan Dalton for the reunion or for a guest appearance on the new album? What are they doing now?
No, at the time it was Todd, Hal, and Ed working closely together on everything from Siren and beyond. So, we had already put together and recorded most of those songs before we even decided to do an Atomic Opera album. I'm not sure what Ryan Dalton is doing these days, but I don't think he's singing any longer. We occasionally keep in touch with Mike Martinez and Mike Furney, and I know they have been playing in a band called Orion.
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| Todd Grubbs |
Todd is the singer now. Did you audition anyone else or was your original idea to keep it in the family so to say?
We kept it all in the family. Todd has done a lot of vocals over the years, and since he always wanted to be a lead singer, he got his chance. It was a natural fit. In the early days of Atomic Opera Todd did a lot of vocals. In the 1980s Todd was the lead vocalist at many of our live shows after Ryan Dalton left the band. Todd wrote nearly all the lyrics, and he always records his vocals when he records rough demos of any songs he writes. So, he knew exactly the vibe he wanted for vocals. So no, we didn't audition anyone.
Todd, how was it to record vocals for the album? Did you feel any pressure having in mind how awesome Ryan Dalton’s voice was? Did you take some vocal lessons before recording “Time Warp”?
I have always recorded vocals for anything I write, usually as a demo for other vocalists, but somehow this time my vocals felt right for this project. I also sing very differently than Ryan.
By the way, how was it to play traditional heavy metal after years of playing instrumental fusion music?
I have always loved heavy metal and it has been a blast returning to my metal roots.
Ed Aborn, who plays drums in the band, is an old friend of yours, but what about Ryan Tatum? I know he used to play with Todd in his solo band but nothing else. Could you introduce Ryan T. please?
Ryan is a phenomenal musician. He is a teacher at the Todd Grubbs School of Music. He does it all, guitar, violin, cello, piano, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and other stringed instruments. We all work with Ed all the time and Todd works with Ryan on a daily basis as a music teacher, so recruiting these guys to the band was a no-brainer.
“Kamikaze” and “Total Control” are old songs and what about the others? Are they all brand new or did you write them over the years?
The other songs are all brand new. Todd wrote most of them. Todd and Hal together wrote a few of them, such as "The Gods Are Alive," "Your Final Day," "The Enemy Within," and "Solider At Arms." On these four songs, Hal put together some riff ideas and then Todd fleshed them out into complete songs.
“Hammered Down In Brandon Town” is such a killer song! Do you remember how the riffs and melodies came to you?
It’s a riff I (Todd) have had for a while, and I also had the idea for a song about the Brandon metal scene, so the two pieces just kind of fell together.
Could you comment on the lyrics of “Soldier at Arms”, “The Gods are Alive” and “Tragedy at Two”? The titles look like there are very interesting stories behind them!
The way I (Todd) approached the lyrics for this album was by trying to build imagery and emotional textures without being too hyper specific. They are all about the human condition, good, bad, and ugly.
A bit overused, but still a necessary question as it’s quite different in each band: who does what in Atomic Opera (riffs, solos, lyrics, arrangements etc.)?
The solos are mostly all Todd, with Hal doing a few here and there. The riffs were written by Hal and Todd together. Hal usually puts down some riff ideas, and then Todd does the rest. He writes the lyrics, comes up with vocal lines and all the melodies, and arranges the songs.
The album ends up with a beautiful instrumental piece which reminds me a bit of what Accept did on “Death Row” or “Too Mean to Die”. Was it an attempt to leave the listener with his thoughts after 35 minutes of a sonic attack?
That’s a good way of putting it! I (Todd) love writing guitar instrumentals and I tried to capture the late ‘70s early ‘80s sound. To me (Hal), the “Time Warp” instrumental Todd created always reminded me of the Scorpions Lovedrive era, with that melodic guitar style and sound.
Did you think about adding original versions of the songs from the 1985 demo to the album as bonus tracks?
We were considering it, but we just can't see it happening. We were never happy with the production of the demos. Back in the 80s we had little money to spend on studio time, so they are what they are. The quality of those early recordings is not very good. We get a lot of questions about releasing them, but it's just not something we're interested in doing.
Exactly!
The deal with FHM Records came through Siren i guess? Was it your first choice or did you shop the album to other labels?
FHM Records is a big reason why this album happened. Frank and Holger are super supportive of Siren and they were also interested in releasing Atomic Opera FL. There was never any thought of any other labels.
Now, when you have a full-length under your belts, do you want to keep Atomic Opera active, playing gigs and releasing new music, or is it more like a closed chapter?
This is a good question. We are currently debating what to do and whether we will play live or not. Still up in the air. There are some preliminary discussions about a Halloween show in Tampa, which will be recorded for a possible live release, and maybe even video footage. Siren and Oblivion are likely the main acts, but we're not sure if Atomic Opera will be a part of it or not. Stay tuned.
Unfortunately I have zero knowledge about the early days of Atomic Opera besides the fact that the band was formed when Siren split up for the first time. How did you find Ryan Dalton who had such an awesome voice?
I don't remember how we met Ryan Dalton. He was a bit younger than the rest of us. He lived in Brandon, just like the rest of us. I have no idea where he came from or who knew him, but at the time, we were all blown away by Geoff Tate and his vocals in Queensryche. Ryan was able to hit some of those high notes and he was heavily influenced by Tate. He was such a skinny dude! We called him "98 pounds of screaming steel and sex appeal."
We were really into glam stuff like Kiss and Alice Cooper. Not sure how the nicknames came about. Someone was probably just goofing around.
Where was the demo recorded and were “Kamikaze” and “Total Control” the only songs you laid down during that session?
Progressive Studio in South Tampa. The engineering was done by the owner Ken Veenstra. Formed in 1978, Ken was not exactly into heavy metal. But it was a cool experience for us since it was the first time in a recording studio for any of us. As far as I know this studio business is still going. Yes, just those two songs, that's it.
The demo was reviewed in Metal Forces magazine. Did you send it to other magazines/fanzines?
Yes, we sent the demo to many fanzines. We had mostly positive reviews.
Were you close to signing a deal with any label?
We always thought that we would have found some interest from a label sooner or later, but we didn't remain together as a band for much more than a year or two, so we never found out.
There is a song on youtube which says it’s from Atomic Opera’s 1986 demo. To me it doesn’t sound like you at all. Can you comment on it?
The second demo was never released. It had four songs. One was all-out speed thrash. One was kind of a catchy glam tune. “Stone and Sea” was a song that Hal and Todd wrote. Hal came up with some riffs and Todd turned it into a song. Pretty much the same way we write many of our songs these days. For this song, I (Hal) was influenced by two things. I had been listening to the first Slayer album and one particular song I liked a lot was "Black Magic" which had a cool riff I was into. Also, I was reading "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stephen R. Donaldson, which is a wild series of books of otherworld fantasy. In this story there are giants who sailed mighty ships, and they sang a song called "Stone and Sea." So, the lyrics were based on this book.
I understand that you could easily write a book about Brandon/Tampa metal scene (which Ed Aborn partly did with his “Siren: The Early Years”), but what stories come to your minds first when you think about the days of Avatar, Argus, Nasty Savage, Siren and others?
Those days were amazing. We had a lot of fun and there was so much energy in the music scene. It seemed like everyone in town was a musician. And many of the musicians all knew each other. Lots of keg parties and small shows at various clubs and bars. The Golden Mug Pub in Brandon, Mark Twain / Power Club in Tampa, Rock-It Club, Ruby's, Sunset, Volley Club, Rocky Point Beach Resort, Stagecoach, and more. I can remember seeing some great local shows with some great bands. Watching Argus and Avatar in the early days was amazing. I think Atomic Opera played its first show at the Mango Recreation Center. I remember one fantastic gig we did at Rock City (Rocky Point Beach). There were, and still are, a lot of local metal bands in our area: Nasty Savage, Powersurge, Vengeance, Executioner/Obituary, Massacre, Oblivion, Purgatory/Iced Earth, Siren, Morbid Angel, Brat, Crimson Glory, Fester, Intice, Pariah, Nocturnus, Camelot, Six Feet Under, etc.
Well, that's a good question. I really don't know. My take is that early on, there was so much competition among metal bands in the area, that it just pushed each band to try to outdo the next band. So, the heavier the better. The more evil sounding and more "underground," the better. So, many of the bands wanted to be even faster, heavier, and more extreme. Nasty Savage was doing things beyond some of the other bands, such as with their over-the-top stage show. They probably inspired Obituary and maybe even Death out of Orlando. With so many death metal bands concentrated in one area, such as Massacre, Morbid Angel, and Six Feet Under, it's no wonder the death metal reputation grew the way it did. Not to mention Deicide and also Cannibal Corpse who moved here from Buffalo. These are some of the biggest names in death metal, so it became known all over the world as THE place for death metal.
Would you say that Atomic Opera didn’t achieve bigger success in the 80’s because you weren’t ready to sacrifice personal lives and careers?
No, not really. Ha ha, at the time none of us had careers. Frankly I can't remember why we broke up. Bands break up all the time for a million reasons and we were no exception. If we had continued, we likely would have done some cool things, or at least I like to think so. Who knows?
Hal, after Atomic Opera you played in Dirty Virgin. I tried to find anything about the band but failed. Could you tell me about it please? Any chances that you’ll put some songs of this band online one day?
Yes, Dirty Virgin was a project created by Bruce Wendel. He recruited Mike Furney who had played drums in Siren and Atomic Opera. Then he asked me (Hal) to join. Shortly after that, Ray Berry replaced Mike on drums. I tried to lobby Bruce to change the name from "Dirty Virgin" to something else. That name was the title of an Atomic Opera song, believe it or not, which I think was written by Mike Furney and Todd Grubbs. Bruce is a great guitar player, but what he really wanted to do was focus on lead vocals. He had written several songs and he had a recording studio in his house. So, we had a couple of demos of originals, plus a heavier cover version of "Secret Agent Man," which was an old Johnny Rivers song from 1966. For a while we had a revolving door of bass players, but eventually settled on a great bassist, Mark Jaqua. We played quite a few memorable local gigs and we also appeared on a compilation tape, "Tampa Bay's Metal Mercenaries." Unfortunately, those old DV songs might be lost forever, since I don't think we have any copies of those tapes anywhere. After a long time, some cassettes ended up in a box in an attic, which in Florida means super high temperatures.
Hal, you quit playing music after Dirty Virgin and concentrated on business and family stuff. Sometimes people regret such decisions and say, “Oh, I should choose rock ‘n’ roll!” What are your thoughts about that in hindsight?
Wow, I don't know how anyone knows this except for me! Yeah, I got a job, got married, bought a house, etc. in the early 1990s. I don't regret anything, except that I wish I'd at least continued playing guitar all those years.
Ed mentioned in his memoir that Hal Dunn and Frank Marsh, who sang in Siren for a while, played together in a band. When was it, what was the name of the band and did the band record anything?
Frank Marsh was the original singer of Siren when we first formed the band. Ed Aborn and Frank grew up in the same neighborhood and were good friends. He left Siren to join the US Navy. He was stationed in Hawaii and when he came back to Florida, he brought with him two killer musicians: A drummer named Ellis and a bass player named Adam Kury, who went on to later join Candlebox. Ellis and Adam became my roommates. Our plan was to put Atomic Opera back together. We had all the pieces. We built a nice rehearsal space and were planning to start working on some songs. At this time, Todd decided to move to Boston to attend Berklee College of Music. So, instead of Todd, we got Faxon Kotz to join. Faxon had just recently quit from Siren, where he had played guitar during the "Dead of Night" demo timeframe. Faxon had a bunch of songs he had written, so we went into the studio and recorded three of his songs plus one new one. We didn't have a name, but we called ourselves "Missionary" although the plan was to come up with a real name at some point. I basically got kicked out of this band, shortly after that the whole band broke up. We never played a gig and nothing was ever done with the demo. That's when Bruce called me up to join his band.
Todd, why did you decide to go to Berklee College of Music? Did you feel you needed to learn more about music theory and improve your skills or was it more a matter of prestige?
I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to go and it was a great learning experience. It has helped me in my teaching.
Hal, you are a fan of the Tampa Bay Lightnings who are on the way to the third Stanley Cup in a row (and fourth in total). But I remember the time when the Bolts were one of the worst teams (circa 1998/99). Were you still with the team during that era?
I'm a huge fan of the Bucs and the Lightning. The Tampa sports teams are on fire right now! I wasn't much of a hockey fan back in those days, but I do remember going to see a Lightning game in the old days. Back then, in the early seasons, they played at the Florida State Fairgrounds, which is the same venue where I saw a crazy Anthrax/Exodus concert, in which the fans tore the place up and tossed chairs all over the place. Then security shut it down! It got kinda wild. I remember going to the Lightning game with Ed Aborn and we both had a blast. Even though the team wasn't very good then, it was a super fun and exciting experience. And nowadays it's even more fun at the much nicer arena.
If you want to leave a message for the readers, feel free to make it!
We really are having a blast making music these days, sort of revisiting our youth. We hope to continue. More than anything we are very, very appreciative of our fans! The support we get in Atomic Opera and Siren from fans all over the world is amazing. We love all the fans. We hope the fans enjoy listening to our music. Thank you so much!
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